Comments on: A whole new world http://melalouise.net/2004/09/a-whole-new-world/ Aware parenting, sewing and life in Amsterdam Sat, 08 Jul 2006 05:04:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Sam http://melalouise.net/2004/09/a-whole-new-world/comment-page-1/#comment-23 Sam Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:11:19 +0000 http://melalouise.net/?p=34#comment-23 Well Pam I've got your exteme programming book through Matt. I'm one of the oldest developers on his crap-o project (been there 6 months) and I was really excited when he joined. He seems to bring fresh ideas to the table (like inversion of control and super test driven XP mentality.) I met such resistance from the terrible programmers on our project in the beginning that I actually started to count the ours and calculate how much money I was making after taxes to try and escape the horrors of the framework they set up. Anyways I hear we're going to the XP conference together. Thanks for loaning me the book. I'm using this as an excuse to get up to speed on XP and figure out exactly what your beau is doing in his test drivin dependancy injection thoughworks infested code. See you there. Well Pam I’ve got your exteme programming book through Matt. I’m one of the oldest developers on his crap-o project (been there 6 months) and I was really excited when he joined. He seems to bring fresh ideas to the table (like inversion of control and super test driven XP mentality.) I met such resistance from the terrible programmers on our project in the beginning that I actually started to count the ours and calculate how much money I was making after taxes to try and escape the horrors of the framework they set up.
Anyways I hear we’re going to the XP conference together. Thanks for loaning me the book. I’m using this as an excuse to get up to speed on XP and figure out exactly what your beau is doing in his test drivin dependancy injection thoughworks infested code. See you there.

]]> By: Pamela http://melalouise.net/2004/09/a-whole-new-world/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Pamela Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:00:30 +0000 http://melalouise.net/?p=34#comment-22 You're probably right but after over three years I think they've managed to manage it somehow, so to speak. Of course, the project is split into subprojects but they all use the same frameworks and there is some codeshare and developers to cross-pollinate between subprojects. I think they will keep on as they are and finish eventually, it's just a matter of time and $$. They were supposed to start reducing the team by the end of the year but at this point in time they are still growing it. The hardest thing is to try and introduce changes (in attitude, process, etc) in a project with that many developers and such a high turnover. Somebody once tried introducing checkstyle but it was a futile effort as it was not incorporated into the build and couldn't be at the time because there would have been about 20000 failures! And most people don't agree with the settings or even realise what it's for!Ah, anyway, all I can do is my best and then my contract ends in two months! :D You’re probably right but after over three years I think they’ve managed to manage it somehow, so to speak. Of course, the project is split into subprojects but they all use the same frameworks and there is some codeshare and developers to cross-pollinate between subprojects. I think they will keep on as they are and finish eventually, it’s just a matter of time and $$. They were supposed to start reducing the team by the end of the year but at this point in time they are still growing it.

The hardest thing is to try and introduce changes (in attitude, process, etc) in a project with that many developers and such a high turnover. Somebody once tried introducing checkstyle but it was a futile effort as it was not incorporated into the build and couldn’t be at the time because there would have been about 20000 failures! And most people don’t agree with the settings or even realise what it’s for!Ah, anyway, all I can do is my best and then my contract ends in two months! :D

]]> By: Robert Watkins http://melalouise.net/2004/09/a-whole-new-world/comment-page-1/#comment-21 Robert Watkins Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:10:51 +0000 http://melalouise.net/?p=34#comment-21 Well... any project with 110 people on it that hasn't imploded under its own weight is impressive. Of course, it sounds like that's where it's heading. :( The turnover rate sounds hideous; on a project that large it probably takes a few months to become really productive, and then they're gone again! As for the quality of the people, though: remember that everyone starts off being, well, incompetent, and the transition from incompetence to competence is primarily one of luck. The turning point always seems to come when you get exposed to someone who really knows what they are doing and can pass the lessons on. As long as the people there are willing to learn (and contractors/freelancers tend to be more willing than most), you always have the chance of being the person who pushes someone else up to the next level. And that can be the most rewarding thing you can do on a project. (There's a lovely little quote in one of Cockburn's books... they had a project that would take 6 good developers. They couldn't get 6 good developers, so they made do with 24 average ones. Sounds like something similar has happened here) Well… any project with 110 people on it that hasn’t imploded under its own weight is impressive. Of course, it sounds like that’s where it’s heading. :(

The turnover rate sounds hideous; on a project that large it probably takes a few months to become really productive, and then they’re gone again!

As for the quality of the people, though: remember that everyone starts off being, well, incompetent, and the transition from incompetence to competence is primarily one of luck. The turning point always seems to come when you get exposed to someone who really knows what they are doing and can pass the lessons on. As long as the people there are willing to learn (and contractors/freelancers tend to be more willing than most), you always have the chance of being the person who pushes someone else up to the next level. And that can be the most rewarding thing you can do on a project.

(There’s a lovely little quote in one of Cockburn’s books… they had a project that would take 6 good developers. They couldn’t get 6 good developers, so they made do with 24 average ones. Sounds like something similar has happened here)

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